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FORUM / RUGBY /  Beeno & Brendan Venter have never seen the All Blacks so Average.

Beeno & Brendan Venter have never seen the All Blacks so Average.

Started by sharkbok9 REPLIES727 VIEWS· 11 Oct 2018, 15:52
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,411 posts
11 Oct 2018, 15:52
#1
11 Oct 2018, 15:52#1

Read some of the blog comments below this article on stuff NZ by Kiwi Bloggers 

They are throwing lots of handbags in the blog area.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/107755323/brendan-venter-springboks-dominated-all-blacks-and-now-have-their-number


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However, the reality is the All Blacks won and the question is, was it a case of the Springboks choking, the All Blacks' amazing fightback ability or was it may be just as simple as poor substitutions from Rassie Erasmus?

I'm sure Erasmus will acknowledge the substitutions he made were not well thought out. In the final 10 minutes of the match, the Springboks made five substitutions compared to the All Blacks' one permanent switch.

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As far as I am concerned the Boks should have put at least 25 - 35 points on the All Blacks in this match. The first half the All Blacks gave away lots of penalties in the red zone but were not penalised with yellow cards. The referee warned Kieren Read as he stood behind the try line for multiple penalty infringements. This should have been more kickable penalties or opportunities to setup lineout drives. This kept the scoreline close in the first half. Then at the start of the 2nd half, the Boks took total control and were attacking at will. 

If the substitutes had not been made, the Boks would have won this at a canter. The Boks are fit as they proved in New Zealand- so they could easily have kept the pace- especially as it was the All Blacks doing most of the tackling.

The bottom line is that like Meyer, Rassie makes allot of substitutions in the last 10 minutes to boost transformation stats. (even with merit players). 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Oct 2018, 16:04
#2
11 Oct 2018, 16:04#2
Two comments from Venter: 'However, instead of playing multi-phase rugby the Bok strategy was to kick the ball into the corners. The chips and grubbers from Faf de Klerk, Handré Pollard and Willie le Roux throughout the match weren't actually exits; they were semi-attacking kicks. South Africa kicked the ball on the All Blacks' 10-metre line, with the whole plan being to change direction.' .....exactly what some of us, a small minority of us, have been saying. ................ 'I'm sure Erasmus will acknowledge the substitutions he made were not well thought out. In the final 10 minutes of the match, the Springboks made five substitutions compared to the All Blacks' one permanent switch. In the 73rd minute, Embrose Papier replaced De Klerk, Bongi Mbonambi swapped with Malcolm Marx and Tendai Mtawarira came on for Steven Kitshoff with six minutes to play. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the players that came on and is instead down to the fact it's nigh impossible to come on and make a difference straight away. Rugby is a game of flow and feel and in the first five minutes, as a starter or reserve, it's difficult to catch your breath. Thereafter, you are able to get into the game and play well. In my opinion, Erasmus should have brought the aforementioned playing personnel on with 20 minutes remaining in the test because they would then have made an impact like modern-day finishers are supposed to.' .......Venter has this right, the substitutions were amateurish and Rassie groupies, the rabid Rassistas, should just admit the truth. But of course Venter wouldn't be Venter if he didn't then blow it....bringing Jantjies and Notshe on the field 20 minutes from time would only have made it easier for the AB.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
11 Oct 2018, 16:10
#3
11 Oct 2018, 16:10#3

Some very bruised egos in the comments section. I've been saying for years that their aerial dominance was a direct response to 2009. Israel Dagg was a key component of that dominance for a long time. He had a huge boot to kick from 22 to 22 and was unmatched in the air. 

On Saturday, we lacked aerially dominant chasers. Dyantyi, Kriel and Willie aren't good enough. We must improve this area of our game. We have great speed, so I don't see why we should be launching such shallow high balls. As a defender it's a nightmare having to turn your back, retreat and track the ball, not knowing who is competing against you. Too often our opponents didn't have to scramble at all and were in good position to support to catcher once he hit the ground and get in place for the next phase. 

André should be selected as he showed against England a great ability to press after kicks. If Rassie can tweak a few things and our back three and 13 improve their ability to compete for the high ball, we'll be extraordinarily difficult to beat. It gives our attackers a great platform. Had we more directness from 12 we would have probably scored a couple more tries. Damian ate up space which left Kriel and our wings struggling to break free. Kriel was extremely dangerous in that game, which was very unfortunate considering his inside partner was so impotent. 

I'll say, it was the most comprehensively dominated Bok showing against an All Black side for quite some time. I think we have played better rounded games at times. The 2014 model was quite daring. This one was a complete shutdown of the Kiwi game. They aren't versatile enough to combat it. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, as New Zealanders are traditionally much better problem solvers than their South African counterparts. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,411 posts
11 Oct 2018, 21:34
#4
11 Oct 2018, 21:34#4
The question is when Rassie was the coach for the Cheetas, Stormers and Munster- did he routinely make 5 substitutes in the last 10 minutes? 
It wasn't as if the whole team was about the collapse, they were still dominating the game. If they were really tired- then it would not have been the Boks dominating. If they were tired why wait for the last 10 minutes?
Was this is choice- or was is about strategic transformation objectives. I don't think Rassie took the All Blacks lightly, nor was he sure the game was in the bag. 
The Boks are fit as proved in New Zealand when they beat the All Blacks.In SA, the All Blacks actually subbed players much earlier, as without Retallack they needed bigger players to be competitive- but the downside is that they are less mobile and fit.
Like the rest of South Africa, the politicians want to see increasing "democratic" representation above merit. It is not a capitalist system but a handout system of "equality". Players like Dyanti have earnt their place on merit, not through political backhand meddling. 
In the end rugby was the loser. 
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
12 Oct 2018, 00:35
#5
12 Oct 2018, 00:35#5
Never mind all the excuses about substitutions. The Boks just ran out of puff in the last 15 like they always do. Just not fit enough and the ABs have it all over them mentally!
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Oct 2018, 01:20
#6
12 Oct 2018, 01:20#6

It's without question that the subs disrupted the game. Where was Willemse at the back? What did Koch do at scrum time? Or in general play? Did Papier have to make that run? On and on, examples of shocking play. 

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
12 Oct 2018, 10:09
#7
12 Oct 2018, 10:09#7
Willemse didn’t get back because Mounga took a quick kick so you can’t blame him! If anything you should have blamed Pollard who was back there but standing in the middle of the field instead of on the obvious side where the kick was directed!
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Oct 2018, 10:23
#8
12 Oct 2018, 10:23#8

Pollard was still up with play when the last carry into the penalty took place - you can see him moving into the flyhalf position at 76:57.

He wasn't standing in the middle of the field back there, he was still trying to get back - the only Bok to do so. He made about 40m back in 10 seconds - Willemse didn't even make 10m back in the 10 seconds between the penalty being awarded and the kick being taken.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Oct 2018, 10:39
#9
12 Oct 2018, 10:39#9

There's little point shifting blame around for this incident. You have an inexperienced player in an unfamiliar position (I don't know how much fullback he has played). He shouldn't have been where he was, hanging around behind a ruck while the Boks' entire half of the field lay undefended to the rear. The mentality of the team, especially the rookies, at that point was wrong. We needed to close out the game, instead we were sniping the fringes and playing basketball. The kick was taken very quickly. It ended up being pinpoint and bouncing perfectly. Don't know if anyone could really have gotten back. Someone should have been there to begin with. That someone is probably the fullback.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,411 posts
13 Oct 2018, 02:54
#10
13 Oct 2018, 02:54#10
No counter handbags from the Kiwi contingent?
— END OF THREAD —

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