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FORUM / RUGBY /  Former Al Black captain Sam Kane names greatest Springbok forward he faced and it

Former Al Black captain Sam Kane names greatest Springbok forward he faced and it

Started by Beeno187 REPLIES492 VIEWS· 02 Aug 2026, 19:33
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,289 posts
02 Aug 2026, 19:33
#1
02 Aug 2026, 19:33#1

it will come as no surprise to anybody bar DUD Mozzie.
Eggchaser says Says Du Toit is possibly the greatest No. 7 ever to play the game.
Now take a look at what Cane says. Note oaks these are not South African opinions about Du Toit.
Doubtless ou Dud Mozzie will insist he is right about Du Toit and will recommend everyone sticks with Mozz. Bwahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart04 Aug 2026, 21:00

Experiment 2…the water in the we’ll(sic)

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart04 Aug 2026, 21:00

It will sometimes flip between well and we’ll depending on how it sees the context. So if you substantially rewrite a sentence and it picks up a different meaning it may change the spelling. But I can’t reproduce how it happened in this instance.

Yours

The Royal We

BE
Beeno1Captain40,289 posts
03 Aug 2026, 15:10
#2
03 Aug 2026, 15:10#2

Poor old Dud Mozzie. It's him against the Rugby world. Hahahahahahaha.

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart04 Aug 2026, 02:47

The team has produced championships…..if you want to name the players who were directly tied to our WC wins I can think of Snyman and Etzebeth who scored two critical late tries and Pollard who made all his kicks in the 2023 knockouts. As for great moments I recall Dud Toit’s 2 tackles on Jordie Barrett, nothing much else.

He is a productive tackler. But our game in WCs produces lots of defense. In the WC final we made 209 tackles, NZ made 92. As the designated first defender Dud Toit’s was bound to make a lot of those. But Mostert and Deon Fourie made nearly the same number per minute played as tight forwards…. both at a higher success rate.

So we can have every opponent we play declaring him the greatest flank of all time. It’s all based on opinion. In terms of the numbers….tackle success rate, metres per carry, defenders beaten, turnovers effected, exceptional Bok win rates….it just doesn’t show up. So what we have is observation and opinion, which are heavily influenced by likes and dislikes. But once a narrative forms it tends to grow.

I prefer numbers but a curated visual record could be compelling.

CL
Coach57,777 posts
clevermike04 Aug 2026, 08:55

Mozart

We all know that your petty hatered of Du Toit started in 2013 - when bot h Dave and >I was against the return of Matfield from retirement to play for the Springboks and menioned Du Toit as an option. That started a strem of B S from you, lasting 13 years.

Incdentally we all know that Mattfiel's reurn was a negaive for the team nd dfmsged his image and reputation as a payer badly.

Du Toit played a massve role in both RWC's won by the Springboks and all invented BS to thcomntrary isabsurd,

,

Plum
PlumCaptain21,810 posts
04 Aug 2026, 09:02
#3
04 Aug 2026, 09:02#3

"Rarely misses tackles.
Makes 20+ tackles in big Tests look routine.
Hits rucks relentlessly.
Shuts down opposition first receivers.
Plays 80 minutes at an intensity most loose forwards can't maintain.
Covers lock and blindside at an elite level."

We're gonna need a replacement soon.

The best direct like-for-like candidate would probably be Elrigh.

But I still that Roos could actually improve on what PSDT has done while Elrigh will probably be better at sticking to the plan and lineout work.

Chippo
Pro3,454 posts
Chippo04 Aug 2026, 09:52

I am definitelty not convinced with Elrich. Decent workhorse - but no where near a PSDT or Schalk!
I'd be more inclined to play one of the Lions blindsiders or even Doos! He is actually a very good ball player.
I'd love to hear Rasta's real opinion on Doos to see where he falls short.

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart04 Aug 2026, 20:50

The best replacement is Ruan Venter…..like for like, but Venter regularly turns over the ball on the deck, just another example of how inaccurate the claim is that Dud’s height prevents him from fetching. Venter also regularly beats tackles

Pakie
PakieCaptain18,099 posts
04 Aug 2026, 20:06
#4
04 Aug 2026, 20:06#4

Steph is a great player, but his weaknesses get papered over probably more than any other player while the positives of his performances get a disproportionately bright spotlight on them after every game compared to other players. It's become an institution. You get Keo reading off stats that says he missed one tackle collectively against England and Scotland this year, while I can point you to two missed tackles in the first 7 minutes of the Scottish game where he was dominated by Darge.

Among our forwards I'd say he's probably middle of the pack when it comes to tackle success. Our forwards are generally very secure tacklers. For example in the French quarter final 2023 Steph made 9 and missed 5. Mostert 13-0, Duane 7-1, Malherbe 12-2. Don't think Mostert will get his horn tooted for that effort.

In the famous win over NZ in 2018 where Steph probably shot to fame more than anything else, he made 24-5, Mostert 24-2, Whiteley 20-1. Yet Mostert hardly got a mention, while Whiteley's huge defensive effort has disappeared into a void. Who even remembers that he played that day?

His massive effort in the WC final against NZ of 28-3 can't be ignored, but again you have Mostert with 16-0 in just 52 minutes on the field, and Deon Fourie with 20-1. Again, our forwards are generally very secure tacklers, it's not unique to Steph nor is he carrying the flag for tackle success. We only missed 14 tackles among the forwards in that game of 246 tackle attempts.

He also has no fetching game, where in the modern game most of the forwards and midfield in the backs in particular has fetching skills. The "he's too tall" argument doesn't wash either, we've seen more than enough locks making steals all over the place.

Again, great, honest, hard player and I don't begrudge him any of his success or acclaim, but on a critical level the rugby fraternity has been wearing permanent rose coloured glasses for the last 7 years when evaluating him.

Rooinek
Captain18,687 posts
Rooinek05 Aug 2026, 08:46

@Pakie Well, if you believe that the decade-long hate campaign that has been waged against PSdT on this message board is some kind of objective "critical evaluation" then you're the one wearing the rose-tinted glasses, my friend.

I can tolerate criticism of any player I like but when it becomes a stream of unsubstantiated and ignorant vitriol then I have an issue with it.

CL
Coach57,777 posts
clevermike05 Aug 2026, 16:26

Pakie

You, like Mozart are livng in Clo/ud Cuckoo land, I will give you to reasons for this statement.

First One - After the English in the 2019 semi using their back lne to beathe AB's backline in the poccss, In th final against SA the situation was different in the Final. A real study of what happened was that t was found that two playrs destroyed the English backline attack and the two Spingboks who did was Du Toit and De Allende, That is why Du Toit was picked as Player of the Year.

The second one was equally clear as well . In the final Du Toit made 28 tackles missing only four in the 203 final.

There is one constant in the case of you and Mozart You both refse o se anym contributions amde by players you doislike, Mozaart on his own admitted that he ignored any contibutions by players he dislike during matches. You mentioned ,

Players ike Mostert makes plenty of tackles - but the attmepts are weak and he nees assistane of oher playes to bring attacking playi g to a stop. Mostert has one weakness and that is open field trakling where Mostert is not en emoely efficient.

One of your constant moans on site is that Tony Browne effort as attack coach is not followed and they do not score more tries as a result, What h appeaned in fact is that the Springboks was chaned and the main part is that Browme presented for the tam was to brin g the A B system used for decadess - namely to use
the loosies change drastically from what it used to be. In South Africa the situation was that looses wre an extension of the Tight 5 - they have to become part of backline attacks and defense..
We often get idiotic comments from from site idiots like "what was Du Toit done on te wing?" The answer is simple To met the demands of Browne's scheme players must have ball sense and thhat is whhat Du, Toit has. The only players I can remember with that naturaL Ability was Schalk Burger and Rob Louw.

.

MP
MpowerPro5,161 posts
05 Aug 2026, 01:34
#5
05 Aug 2026, 01:34#5

I've always thought Pieter is a tough as nails player and leader. Versatile at lock or flank, with an engine that will last a full eighty minutes.

Yes, he is a nice guy "plat op die aarde" personality that is very likeable. So paparazzi fuzz over him more, not his fault, though.

It's shit that the media goons exclude players like Frans Malherbe, Franco Mostert, Duane Vermeulen, Kwagga, and Deon Fourie. Their type of toughness and skills are also great.

On a Rugby level, Stef's positives far outweigh the negatives. So as long as he can give this physical intensity, I would rather have him in the team than not.

Plum
PlumCaptain21,810 posts
05 Aug 2026, 09:15
#6
05 Aug 2026, 09:15#6

I've thought about this a bit and I think it's to do with crossing a mental barrier.

When people hear a player being praised enough times, then that player enters a sort of safe zone in their mind. A position beyond reproach.

Largely because they know that no matter what happens, they can always fall back on the popular opinion. And those opinions provide a level of cover even when some claims are clearly not supported.

Let's take the claim of PSDT running traffic like a boss. I simply don't see him getting well beyond the advantage line very often. What I'm seeing provides me the "context" and when I look at the stats I'm provided with the evidence.

Thats not to say the net effect of having him in the side isn't a positive one.

It's simply to say that fan boys get to a point where, supported by popular opinion, critical thinking goes out the window.

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart06 Aug 2026, 16:35

So you're argument is that those who think the barrage of criticism against PSDT on this board is too stupid to recognize constructive criticism...

yes that could explain it

DbDraad
Captain26,875 posts
DbDraad06 Aug 2026, 23:36

@Mozart ...lazy typing from me...but you know what I meant...

MP
MpowerPro5,161 posts
05 Aug 2026, 13:50
#7
05 Aug 2026, 13:50#7

Looking at the criticism of Stef over the years, it's always the same story. Someone points out missed tackles or that he doesn't fetch, but they never say what the end goal is. What is the point of all this criticism?

If the point is he's not a fetcher, that's fair, but then why is he playing flank in the first place? The coaches must clearly value other things he brings over traditional fetcher skills. So pointing out that he doesn't fetch is not really a criticism of him, it's a criticism of the role he's been given.

The real question is this: does his overall contribution justify his place in the team? And the answer is clearly yes. His physicality, work rate, leadership, and consistency at the highest level outweigh the mistakes.

If the argument is that other forwards deserve more recognition, that's a fair point. But using that to try and diminish what Stef brings is not a balanced view. You can acknowledge other players without tearing one down. That would be a more honest discussion.

Rooinek
Captain18,687 posts
Rooinek05 Aug 2026, 16:58

@Mozart Well all my numbers are saying is that PSdT was voted World Player of the Year twice . . . which is not opinion, but fact.

Doesn't matter if you don't like it . . . it's FACT!

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart05 Aug 2026, 17:29

‘Voted’

‘usually a formal expression of opinion or will in response to a proposed decision’

MP
MpowerPro5,161 posts
05 Aug 2026, 16:33
#8
05 Aug 2026, 16:33#8

I'm all for discussion, Pakie, but discussion needs a point. What's the end goal here? Do you want him dropped? Do you want his role changed?

Or is it just about pointing out flaws for the sake of it? If there's no clear direction, then it's not really discussion, it's just noise.

Pakie
Captain18,099 posts
Pakie05 Aug 2026, 19:37

@Mpower none of this goes anywhere. We are not coaches in a meeting that will influence who plays on Saturday or what the bench split will be. We're a bunch of couch fans (apart from guys like Xavi actually involved with the game/coaching) having a chinwag for our own entertainment, for company, for bouncing around ideas. It's a rugby forum - what are we going to talk about if not about team evaluation, player evaluation, analysing plays, presenting numbers, good or bad. What else is there? And why should there be a point or destination to any of it? What would that even possibly be when we're not in a position to change or influence anything?

Plum
Captain21,810 posts
Plum06 Aug 2026, 13:31

@Pakie lol

It's painful

MP
MpowerPro5,161 posts
05 Aug 2026, 16:44
#9
05 Aug 2026, 16:44#9

So Ruan Venter is a like for like replacement for Stef. Has Venter proven himself without a doubt against the best players in the World? Has he gone 80 minutes at full tilt against the best URC teams?

Other names like Elrigh louw comes up. Most probably a better replacement. But none of them are a straight-up swap for Stef.

Stef brings things that don't show up on a stat sheet. The leadership, "as jy bang is se net, ons maak n fokken plan" 🤣 the engine, the BMT. You can't replace that with a guy who is to injury prone.

Same goes for Eben. Some players aren't replaceable like for like. They leave holes.

Pakie
Captain18,099 posts
Pakie06 Aug 2026, 15:55

@Plum a Venter moment for the fans. Poor Hamish.

Plum
Captain21,810 posts
Plum06 Aug 2026, 16:30

@Pakie You won't believe the amount of research i have done into his knee injury to check whether he'll come back just as good. Apparently, these days, if the op goes well and the physio is on point, he should get back to or close to the same level.

The real risk is apparently that he is at slightly higher risk of knee injuries in future though.

When is say I have done a lot of research, i do mean it. All the way from grafting choice improvements and fixation methods to ligament reconstruction. I shit you not, its a proper rabbit hole.

Look up what a cortical button system is!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,289 posts
06 Aug 2026, 20:23
#10
06 Aug 2026, 20:23#10

Nice to see the oaks batting for du Toit and recognizing a moronic campaign has been waged against him by DUD Mozzie and DUD Pakster. Plumpster appears to be trying some fence sitting and what he thinks is psychological mumbo jumbo. Hahahahahahahahaha Come on Plumpster you can do better!
Du Toit has to be one of if not the greatest number 7 ever to play the game.
Game set and match.
Rassie has to be one of the greatest if not the greatest coach ever.
Matfield says Allende is the best number 12 in the worl and Eggchaser rates him highly.
In view of all this anybody sticking with DUD Mozzie is braindead.

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart07 Aug 2026, 11:52

HasBeen’s three wise men….the Donald, Colonel McGregor and Geraasmus. Very similar characters.

Pakie
Captain18,099 posts
Pakie07 Aug 2026, 13:01

@Mozart nah to lump Rassie in with those is a disservice. He's a lekker ou. Random Youtuber can take his place.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,289 posts
07 Aug 2026, 21:16
#11
07 Aug 2026, 21:16#11

Eeks is ou Pakster rebelling against the Gimp master. Who wouda thought.

Pakie
Captain18,099 posts
Pakie08 Aug 2026, 04:44

Mutiny on the Mampara. Don't worry Beeno all will be well, we'll have some Mampara Rum and a song and dance and still be friends in the morning but your concern is appreciated we know you care deeply etc.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,289 posts
07 Aug 2026, 21:18
#12
07 Aug 2026, 21:18#12

Nope the Colonel was good on Russia but poor on Israel. He also thought he had better Judgement than Americas Greatest President D J Trump.

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart07 Aug 2026, 23:26

Good on Russia? He had Russia winning the war more than four years ago. ‘America’s greatest President’ is in deep trouble on Iran. You can’t have a bunch of Mullahs mocking the world's Super Power. It’s time to make the tough decisions,

BE
Beeno1Captain40,289 posts
08 Aug 2026, 11:35
#13
08 Aug 2026, 11:35#13

Russia has won the war and Odessa could be in play. If you don't think Russia has won the war look at the economic state of Europe and Germany in particular. Volkswagen have again laid off workers 100,000 in fact.
President Trump is not in trouble over the Iran war. The polls show the majority of Americans support the war and the Dow is at record levels. Trump is securing energy dominance fir America.
Further Dud Mozzie the demorats are in a civil war with the Communists of the DSA who have around 30 percent support in the Demorat party. This is a huge switch off to the vast majority of Americans. Further on a number of 80/20 issues the Demonrats are on the wrong side. The Demonrats are also bankrupt but the GOP is rolling in cash. The demorats. have no leaders of note.
Dud Mozzie you are one hugely ignorant oak.
I suggest you join X and get some real news. There are also many good channels on You Tube and Rumble.
Remember your backing of Nikki Haley for president and your saying Trump couldnt win Bwahahahahaha that rivals your daft bigoted take on Rassie and Du Toit.
I do hope you are getting a clue about election fraud and the whole Covid debacle, Fauci diary etc. You are such a clueless dope. Try to get yourself properly informed. You are addicted to Globalist propaganda and will keep making an ass of yourself until that changes.

Mozart
Coach50,398 posts
Mozart08 Aug 2026, 14:05

You should stop reading the garbage on X and read the real polls.

‘Worth vs. Not Worth: About 66% to 68% of U.S. adults say the military action has not been worth the costs, while only about 24% to 25% feel it has been worthwhile.Presidential Handling: Approximately 35% approve of how President Trump is managing the conflict, while 61% to 65% disapprove.Partisan Differences: Strong backing is limited primarily to Republicans (around 73% approval), whereas clear majorities of Democrats and independents heavily disapprove and view the prolonged conflict negatively.’

As for the Donald winning the election, that was down to Harris being a total disaster. He is right on many of the issues, but I repeat, you can’t have the World’s super power being mocked by rag heads. Trump needs to fix the Iran mess. He has the wherewithal to do it, but it will be painful.

VW laying off workers has little to do with the war that McGregor declared over 4 years ago and which has vastly diminished Russia’s standing as a military power.

— END OF THREAD —

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